Organization is something that fascinates me. It occurs to me that the difference between a chest of drawers and a pile of sawdust is how it's organized. In some ways, for me, the organization of something is more important than the actual substance of something. Looking at the organization of anything and everything, you start to see how universal it is. I wonder if that isn’t an aspect of spirit as well. It’s a non physical thing that is that determines the physical manifestation of things. The existence of organization in the universe has been used to infer the existence of God. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. We understand a thing only in it’s relationship to something else, which is again just organization. There really isn’t anything in the universe but organization so there is nothing to compare or contrast it to. Even what we think of as chaos has it’s own certain kind of organization. I wonder if there could ever be any such thing as a series of random numbers because it is defined by it’s lack of pattern, which is a pattern (in the same way that a negative number is still a quantity). Hmmm…
Any thoughts, anyone?
Any thoughts, anyone?
posted by:
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Salt Lake City
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Re: The Idea of Organization...Any Thoughts?
Thu, August 30, 2007 - 3:08 PMthe way I heard it was as the watchmakers argument. If you are walking through a wooded area, and you find an old watch laying on the ground, and you never seen one before or knew what it was, suppose you found out how to wind it and take the back off... You would notice specific parts, all moving in harmony, in precision, all to the end of moving three arms, and as a result you have "the time." You would not be given a choice but to assume that someone deliberately created that thing, for that specific purpose. Hence, when we look at the universe, and how in some areas how neat and perfect things are organized, how perfectly they operate, it is in those areas we find evidence of God.
The counter argument is this...
I not being God can conceive of in my own mind a better universe. I can create in my own imagination a better model. Therefore, why didn't God in all his/her/it's infinite wisdom and power create a better version of the universe than we have now? Is there not the possibility that in a huge chaotic universe that there is one little tiny point where things just happened to be highly organized, and we just happen to live in that point?
I dunno... Just a thought...
Cheers Leo! -
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Re: The Idea of Organization...Any Thoughts?
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 12:29 PMorganization (order) breeds chaos
and vice versa
before a major reordering of your house
it is going to get really messy while you clean it
at their peak dynasties fall
from the dark ages come the light
all things resist absolutes
which is why things are always changing
there is order in the sawdust
in the way it falls and is mounted by other sawdust particles
like vonnegut's theory of bowling balls in a crate
stacking based upon the situation of the foundation
it might even have more order than an anal retentive desk drawer
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Re: The Idea of Organization...Any Thoughts?
Tue, September 18, 2007 - 2:19 PMI'm not so sure that organization in the universe leads to the existence of God. That does fit, but it also fits if there is no god. If there is no god, things would just have to be the way they are, and in our case people have recognized this as organization. I'm not saying that God doesn't exist though. My beliefs are somewhat similar to Pantheism, in that I believe that the reason cultures have religions is that they are giving a human nature to, well, nature. The laws of nature, as far as I know, are constant, just as most gods are said to be. The laws of nature revolve around balance and peace, if you will, just as most gods do. People may have given "god" faces, personalities, the ability to write holy books, and speak because that's what we relate to and can understand. I kinda got on a different subject, but still.
